Vivenne's quiet for a little moment, walking the fine line of how he feels, how she's able to talk about it and even really how she talks about it. Someone else would likely be better in their straightforward manner but would he talk to them? She counts it as good that he's talking at all to her.
"And with your friend you wanted something else?"
Her hands finish up on the first horn, reaching again for more of the paste to work down his other horn, to give an excuse to keep him sitting there to talk.
"What was it that you wanted? And you won't offend me."
It wasn't her typical talk but she was giving that permission first for him to be freer in what he said, hoping really he would be.
He opens his mouth to say something, and it stays open for a minute. There's that annoyed, unsettled itch inside of him, and there's some stuff in his head wanting to come out, pushing for it, and it's hard to decide if he should let it happen. But he needs to give her an answer, doesn't he? Yeah. Yeah, he knows that much. So focus on what he knows. Maybe not every little bit of that stuff in his head needs to come out as much as it thinks it does, but he can still answer the question.
"Some people like to boss me around in bed, right? Big qunari bastard who could break you in half like a twig and you're the one giving the orders. I get it, it's a thrill. Fun to give people a little taste of power and see where they want to go with it, you know? But I was-- I don't know. Maybe I was thinking about tamassrans a little bit before that, and brought some of that into somewhere it didn't belong. I don't know. But it didn't feel like I was reading her wrong, and then it just--"
He breaks off with a frustrated noise, then starts back in. "Ah, it was stupid. At the end of the day they're looking to me to make sure everything's going the way it needs to, and if I don't remember that, people are going to get hurt. Should have known better, I know people don't know how any of it works up here. I guess I just kind of... ended up thinking she was turning out to be something she's not. Which is kind of a shame, because what she was was uh, pretty damn hot."
He gives a quiet little laugh, then makes another, quieter frustrated sound. "I don't usually screw up like that. She was just annoyed when I left, so it could have gone worse, but-- I don't know, it was all just a big dumb mess."
He leans his head back, turns it a little hoping for just an instant where Vivienne might push back against the movement, knowing she might not, wanting to feel the pressure of her hands on his horn. Everything sucks, and he feels like a dumbshit, and for this moment, the moment before the one when he has to remind himself he can't afford to relax too much, it just feels better to just admit to someone that he screwed up and maybe feel a touch somewhere on him from someone who gives a shit.
She does push back with her hands, not knowing he needs it but to keep his head in a better position to continue her massage, a slightly firmer pressure now that she's had one horn to figure out what she can do.
"And you're certain you're at fault?" Though with the disbelief in her tone that isn't really a question.
"It seems to me like there are two parties in this. If she wasn't hurt, just... annoyed it could as easily be her fault. You can only give her what she lets you know and even if you read her well there may have been more she didn't tell you." Which doesn't make it Bull's fault if she wasn't satisfied. Communication with intimacy was incredibly important, particularly with the style Bull described.
"And some people aren't suited for power." Even if Bull enjoyed being bossed around there was a fine line between someone who did it well and enjoyably and someone who didn't. Not that Vivienne's comparing that to the Game or any power she may pull.
He shakes his head, maybe a little bit to feel that pressure again that tells him her hands are there. And a little bit just to disagree. He doesn't make a habit of it, disagreeing with the Lady of Iron like that, but either she's testing him -- hard to tell, with his head all messed up the way it is right now -- or she's just getting it wrong. Which isn't impossible; she might be powerful, might have to keep that power under control, but she doesn't have the same kind of power he's got, doesn't have to watch the same parts of her that he does. Maybe he has to explain before she gets it.
"That's why I've got to keep my head in the game. Out here, I read people wrong and make a bad call, they're not always going to be able to stop me. And if they can't handle a little power, I have to be able to take it back. Best case scenario, something that was supposed to give someone else a break just adds to their load because I brought crap into it that wasn't right for them. She was just looking to get off and have a good time with it, you know? I knew that going in."
"You did." A simple confirmation because at the very least whatever had happened had happened after. He'd gone in knowing the score, had read it right to begin with. And this is where the balance becomes more delicate, not solely power but history, culture. He'd thought of tamassrans, or at least that was what he'd said had thrown him off.
And it's not the first time he's brought them up to Vivienne. Chances are it's not the only time he's thought about them either.
"Your tamassrans do many things for you. From what I know of them." And whilst Vivienne isn't an expert, because few know that much about the Qunari outside of the Qunari, she'd known enough to laugh when he'd first asked if she was a little bit tamassran. "Which doesn't usually throw you off."
She pauses, letting it hang, choosing her tact, keeping that pressure along his horn all the same.
"You came back knowing that something had gone wrong. Your head is at least in the right place, it would be more concerning if you thought nothing of a disastrous night. There is still something that can be done."
"Yeah, I guess," he says heavily, sitting still now, thinking about where along his horn her hands might be and then realising that he's focusing on them, the knowledge that her hands are somewhere on him and that he can't feel exactly where, on that possibility of touch. He sighs, quietly this time. Rolls his shoulders a little bit, rolls his ankle. Focuses on that.
"I've just got to be careful next time. Maybe take a break for a little while. But not uh, the kind of break that's going to get in the way of that job for you, though. It's just dumb personal crap, not going to effect the important stuff. You're still going to get our best, ma'am."
She smiles slightly to herself at that, that he's still thinking of her, of the care he's willing to put in even though Vivienne knows the job is fake. Though really the world will be better with that noble taken down.
"It would be nice to hope that you have more of an option than being careful or taking a break." Though with how he's let her in, let her work and opened up this hasn't been a wasted time.
"You need something. A need started this, perhaps a different one to what you expected. You should be able to ask for it. If it'll help."
"Uh--" The sound comes out of him all on its own, surprised, less than steady. He stares at the room in front of him, the line of his shoulders tight, his mouth open, ready to say-- say what? She doesn't understand. Because she's not Qunari. Which is the kind of thing he has to make sure he remembers from now on. Right. He takes a deep breath, surprised at how hard his heart is beating, and lets it out slowly.
"It, uh," he starts. "I appreciate the thought, ma'am, but it's... I know it's something we joke about, but I can't expect you to, ah--" No, she'll take that as an insult, right? Saying she couldn't do it, pricking her pride. Hard to tell right now. Better rephrase. "There's a lot of stuff the tamassrans train for that I'm not going to be able to explain, and I can't put that on you. Even this is kind of, uh-- I appreciate it, though. Nice of you to offer."
Breathe. In, out. Don't move your head, makes it easier not to think about the contact. Look at the fancy furniture, notice the smell of the stuff Vivienne's using without thinking too hard about it. Things will feel more normal once he's outside with the Chargers again, and a little more normal after that. This isn't as big a deal as it feels like right now. All he has to do is wait, and he'll be able to see that. Asit tal-eb. Right.
Just as she doesn't expect him to let her in, proud as she is as to how much they've talked, that he's gotten some of it off his chest -- or head, she also doesn't have an expectation for what could happen. Okay, that second part might be a lie, she's certainly had to consider avenues of what he might need if only to try and think ahead. But she also knows that he's right when he says that there's more than she could ever know.
"If what you need is something you can't ask for then simply know that the people around you will do what they can to make sure your head is where it needs to be. We may not know what to do best... but pride too often can doom us."
And as someone who wears pride central in her mask... At the very least this has pulled some curiosity in her. After all, even if none of them are trained, even if no one can truly perform what is needed, shouldn't someone at least have the knowledge of how to help someone?
"It's not a pride thing, it's..." He trails off, trying to find a way to make sure she gets it that's not going to make him explain. He doesn't find it, and more explaining's the only thing left if he doesn't want to insult her, and he lets out something that's more a frustrated noise than a sigh and rubs his hands over his thighs again.
"It's like this, ma'am. If I'm going to... let go. There's got to be someone nearby who knows what needs to get done. Stupid, to think someone's going to know that just because they're good at taking charge. That's not the kind of mistake I'm going to make twice. It isn't personal, it's just better for both of us if I just don't. Sorry."
Which is the point where he should maybe stand up, thank her, leave, or maybe just start smalltalking his way toward a way to go that's not abrupt enough to insult her. But a moment passes, and then another one, and he keeps sitting here, her hands still on him somewhere, not getting up. Well. Better to let her set the pace anyway. That's always the right way with Vivienne. Better just to keep sitting here for a while.
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no subject
"And with your friend you wanted something else?"
Her hands finish up on the first horn, reaching again for more of the paste to work down his other horn, to give an excuse to keep him sitting there to talk.
"What was it that you wanted? And you won't offend me."
It wasn't her typical talk but she was giving that permission first for him to be freer in what he said, hoping really he would be.
no subject
"Some people like to boss me around in bed, right? Big qunari bastard who could break you in half like a twig and you're the one giving the orders. I get it, it's a thrill. Fun to give people a little taste of power and see where they want to go with it, you know? But I was-- I don't know. Maybe I was thinking about tamassrans a little bit before that, and brought some of that into somewhere it didn't belong. I don't know. But it didn't feel like I was reading her wrong, and then it just--"
He breaks off with a frustrated noise, then starts back in. "Ah, it was stupid. At the end of the day they're looking to me to make sure everything's going the way it needs to, and if I don't remember that, people are going to get hurt. Should have known better, I know people don't know how any of it works up here. I guess I just kind of... ended up thinking she was turning out to be something she's not. Which is kind of a shame, because what she was was uh, pretty damn hot."
He gives a quiet little laugh, then makes another, quieter frustrated sound. "I don't usually screw up like that. She was just annoyed when I left, so it could have gone worse, but-- I don't know, it was all just a big dumb mess."
He leans his head back, turns it a little hoping for just an instant where Vivienne might push back against the movement, knowing she might not, wanting to feel the pressure of her hands on his horn. Everything sucks, and he feels like a dumbshit, and for this moment, the moment before the one when he has to remind himself he can't afford to relax too much, it just feels better to just admit to someone that he screwed up and maybe feel a touch somewhere on him from someone who gives a shit.
no subject
"And you're certain you're at fault?" Though with the disbelief in her tone that isn't really a question.
"It seems to me like there are two parties in this. If she wasn't hurt, just... annoyed it could as easily be her fault. You can only give her what she lets you know and even if you read her well there may have been more she didn't tell you." Which doesn't make it Bull's fault if she wasn't satisfied. Communication with intimacy was incredibly important, particularly with the style Bull described.
"And some people aren't suited for power." Even if Bull enjoyed being bossed around there was a fine line between someone who did it well and enjoyably and someone who didn't. Not that Vivienne's comparing that to the Game or any power she may pull.
no subject
"That's why I've got to keep my head in the game. Out here, I read people wrong and make a bad call, they're not always going to be able to stop me. And if they can't handle a little power, I have to be able to take it back. Best case scenario, something that was supposed to give someone else a break just adds to their load because I brought crap into it that wasn't right for them. She was just looking to get off and have a good time with it, you know? I knew that going in."
no subject
And it's not the first time he's brought them up to Vivienne. Chances are it's not the only time he's thought about them either.
"Your tamassrans do many things for you. From what I know of them." And whilst Vivienne isn't an expert, because few know that much about the Qunari outside of the Qunari, she'd known enough to laugh when he'd first asked if she was a little bit tamassran. "Which doesn't usually throw you off."
She pauses, letting it hang, choosing her tact, keeping that pressure along his horn all the same.
"You came back knowing that something had gone wrong. Your head is at least in the right place, it would be more concerning if you thought nothing of a disastrous night. There is still something that can be done."
no subject
"I've just got to be careful next time. Maybe take a break for a little while. But not uh, the kind of break that's going to get in the way of that job for you, though. It's just dumb personal crap, not going to effect the important stuff. You're still going to get our best, ma'am."
no subject
"It would be nice to hope that you have more of an option than being careful or taking a break." Though with how he's let her in, let her work and opened up this hasn't been a wasted time.
"You need something. A need started this, perhaps a different one to what you expected. You should be able to ask for it. If it'll help."
no subject
"It, uh," he starts. "I appreciate the thought, ma'am, but it's... I know it's something we joke about, but I can't expect you to, ah--" No, she'll take that as an insult, right? Saying she couldn't do it, pricking her pride. Hard to tell right now. Better rephrase. "There's a lot of stuff the tamassrans train for that I'm not going to be able to explain, and I can't put that on you. Even this is kind of, uh-- I appreciate it, though. Nice of you to offer."
Breathe. In, out. Don't move your head, makes it easier not to think about the contact. Look at the fancy furniture, notice the smell of the stuff Vivienne's using without thinking too hard about it. Things will feel more normal once he's outside with the Chargers again, and a little more normal after that. This isn't as big a deal as it feels like right now. All he has to do is wait, and he'll be able to see that. Asit tal-eb. Right.
no subject
Just as she doesn't expect him to let her in, proud as she is as to how much they've talked, that he's gotten some of it off his chest -- or head, she also doesn't have an expectation for what could happen. Okay, that second part might be a lie, she's certainly had to consider avenues of what he might need if only to try and think ahead. But she also knows that he's right when he says that there's more than she could ever know.
"If what you need is something you can't ask for then simply know that the people around you will do what they can to make sure your head is where it needs to be. We may not know what to do best... but pride too often can doom us."
And as someone who wears pride central in her mask... At the very least this has pulled some curiosity in her. After all, even if none of them are trained, even if no one can truly perform what is needed, shouldn't someone at least have the knowledge of how to help someone?
no subject
"It's like this, ma'am. If I'm going to... let go. There's got to be someone nearby who knows what needs to get done. Stupid, to think someone's going to know that just because they're good at taking charge. That's not the kind of mistake I'm going to make twice. It isn't personal, it's just better for both of us if I just don't. Sorry."
Which is the point where he should maybe stand up, thank her, leave, or maybe just start smalltalking his way toward a way to go that's not abrupt enough to insult her. But a moment passes, and then another one, and he keeps sitting here, her hands still on him somewhere, not getting up. Well. Better to let her set the pace anyway. That's always the right way with Vivienne. Better just to keep sitting here for a while.